Talent Plus Research Experts Talk Data and Research

In this episode of Let’s Talk Talent, host Mark Epp chats with Talent Plus research experts Alice Pyclik and Jonah Garbin.

Talent Plus recognizes, engages, accelerates, and leads talent, talent strategies, and talent planning across organizations.

They discuss:

• The importance of taking a data-driven approach to talent and how it can affect long-term decisions for your team.
• Ever felt like the grass is greener at another job? That’s because it’s science. There’s research behind tenure and how it connects to engagement of employees over time.
• Internal motivation is ultimately what drives employees to work hard, be ambitious and stay at their jobs long-term. But it’s up to an employer to aid in that internal motivation. 
• How Talent Plus’ interviews and assessments enhance diversity, equity, and inclusion for an organization and the research behind it all.

Read our case study, Diversity Increases by 26% with Talent Assessment here.

Contact us today to learn more about how we predict performance and maximize human potentiality. Let’s Talk Talent!

Transcript

Mark Epp:

Joining us today are Alice Pyclik and Jonah Garbin from Talent Plus. Welcome to Let's Talk Talent.

Jonah Garbin:

Thanks for having us, Mark. 

Alice Pyclik:

Yes, thank you.

Mark Epp:

Absolutely. Well, let's begin Alice, by finding out a little bit more about you. So how long have you worked at Talent Plus?

Alice Pyclik:

I've been here for about two years.

Mark Epp:

Alice, you received your Ph.D. in Industrial Organizational and Human Factors Psychology from Wright State University. So first of all, what does that actually mean, exactly? And how are you practically applying this knowledge to the work that you do at Talent Plus?

Alice Pyclik:

Yeah, so Industrial Organizational Psychology is really studying the heart of human behavior in the workplace. Human factors psychology is more about how we interact with technology and that was not really my focus in school. I focused more on industrial organizational psychology and that really gives me a good perspective on the content of why we do things a certain way at work as well as a really good data background on how do we measure talent, how do we measure performance, how do we predict performance? And so I think having that blend of content and data has served me really well here and I think adds a different kind of perspective to the team.

Mark Epp:

Jonah, really glad you're here as well with us today. So how long have you been a Research Associate at Talent Plus? 

Jonah Garbin:

Let’s see, I started at Talent Plus as a Research Associate right after I graduated from Doane, which would've been in 2018. So I started that summer and I have been a Research Associate here ever since. So four years. 

Mark Epp:

So tell us a little bit about your background and education.

Jonah Garbin:

I have been around Talent Plus for well over a decade. I came into the building when it was first created in 2011, right? I started here when I was actually 14, cleaning dishes for the local parties that we had up here, just doing kind of the odd jobs. And then over time became an intern. I was an intern for Makenzie specifically in high school and the first couple years of college. And then right after my Bachelor came here. I have a degree in Psychology and Mathematics pursuing my Ph.D., but it's, it's a little all over the place but it's been fun.

Mark Epp:

Absolutely. You know, I love and have so much respect for both of you because you're so smart. Both of you are so smart and I know that leaders like to surround ourselves with the smartest people potentially in the room. So I'm so glad  you're in the room today with me. So you said you're pursuing your Ph.D., what's the study of your Ph.D. program?

Jonah Garbin:

Yeah, I'm pursuing my Ph.D. technically in Educational Psychology, but within Educational Psychology at the University of Nebraska — Lincoln, there's specialization. So I'm specializing in Qualitative Quantitative Psychometric Methods, which is just a fancy term for, there's different kinds of analyzing data, qualitative interviews, important function of what we do quantitative, which is the true data analysis. And then there is the psychometrics, which is the actual building and measuring of particular psychological phenomenon.

Mark Epp:

Mm-hmm. Okay. Alice, I'd like to ask something of you. Why do you provide statistical analysis ROI studies to our clients? Why do you do that?

Alice Pyclik:

I think it goes back to taking a data driven approach to decisions about talent. You can feel in your gut that someone with a certain strength would be a great fit for this team over here, but if our data shows well actually they probably work out better doing this other thing, then I think that's something that would be helpful for clients to know. 

It also helps them understand, um, who their top performers are, who their top talent is, and we can give them recommendations on how to invest in those people to grow them in their careers and grow the organization. 

Mark Epp:

Mm-hmm. Jonah, when you think about, individuals, younger individuals in the workplace, we've heard this phrase, the Big Resignation. And so from a research perspective, why do you think so many people, maybe even younger individuals are leaving their jobs right now? What's, what's behind that? 

Jonah Garbin:

I've done a little bit of research looking at the average tenure and kind of the engagement of employees over time. And one of the things that we have seemed to found in our research looking at the longitudinal work is that there appears to be this trend where everyone's really happy kind of in their first two years. We call it that Cinderella effect. And then all of a sudden things kind of go down over time, right? They mention that they're spending less time with their leaders, they're realizing that a lot of their time is more filled with projects. Things are still okay, but it's going down a little bit. 

And then around the four, five years it hits really low and then that fifth year shoots up again, never gets back to the Cinderella effect, but gets to about the effect of the third or fourth year. And then all of a sudden the next year it shoots out again even lower than it was. And we were fascinated by that. We said, why does that jump? And then why is it drop tremendously? 

And one of the things that we're finding is, that's a lot of times when individuals are getting their raise. So they've been with the organization, they've done okay, they're getting their raise and now they’re in this position where I was miserable, hence the low engagement around those three, four years. But all I did was I was externally motivated. And we know this research on motivation. You internally motivate individuals on things that they want to do. You externally motivate people on things they don't want to do. This is why we were paid for chores, cause people don't like necessarily mowing the lawn every day or cleaning up the trash or doing all those things. So we pay you to do it. Parents would do that because it would motivate you to do it.

We are externally motivating individuals on their career and most individuals are spending the majority of their lives in their career. That's backwards. We need to be internally motivating individuals and that appears to be one of the biggest reasons for why employees are leaving. 

Mark Epp:

So for both of you, I'm really fascinated by this idea of internal motivation. How then does an employer really help people become more internally motivated? If after those three years or so and we're in an economy right now where we may not be getting those raises that we were talking about, you were saying. So how does an employer then really internally motivate someone?

Alice Pyclik:

I think in part it's a talent thing. So we know that people with certain talents are more likely to be internally motivated, but I don't think that hope is lost if someone doesn't necessarily have those talents but they have talents in other areas. I think it's about putting them in a position where they're doing things that as we say, at Talent Plus they're good at and they enjoy. 

So if that involves maybe shifting some of their current responsibilities somewhere else and giving them additional responsibilities that maybe someone else was covering that could be a way to help them be more internally motivated to perform those things that again, they're good at and they enjoy. 

Jonah Garbin:

That’s why in our Talent Plus assessments, we don't just have that rec. rate, if you're recommended or not recommended, we provide a profile which is not just descriptive of the particular thoughts, feelings and behaviors that individuals have, but those are the particular thoughts, feelings and behaviors that are predictive of being a top performer in that job category. 

And we have individual themes like positivity, achiever, command, just simple examples. If you notice from your profile that this individual is high in relationship, they want connection, they want one on one time, not just with their team but with their leader. So, easiest way to internally motivate, spend time with them, build a relationship with that employee, say, “Hey, how are things going?” 

And it goes down to I believe, in what are the talents they have? What are those thoughts, feelings, behaviors that make them special? And then leveraging them to creating a job with roles that allow them to succeed and grow. Cause when you’re realizing you're doing the things that you're phenomenal at and you're successful, it's hard to not love what you do when those two things are occurring.

Mark Epp:

Jonah and Alice, you mentioned just now Jonah, you mentioned that our assessments are role specific and that is I believe a competitive advantage for Talent Plus. Why is it important that we have role specific assessments rather than just quote unquote a personality test like some other assessments might be called?

Alice Pyclik:

Yeah, that's a great question. Of course there's other players on the market who have a single assessment and though they usually come with custom benchmarks based on the job role, they're not studying talents that are unique to different job roles. 

In what world does it make sense that the talents necessary to succeed in a customer service role are exactly the same as the talents necessary to succeed in a supervisor role or in a mid-level manager role? And by conducting job analyses and really learning about what talents differentiate top performers in this particular job role, that's really a way that we can bring a competitive advantage to our science and to our clients.
 
Mark Epp:

This probably could certainly be the most important question I can ask of you today. And it's regarding Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion. We're hearing so much about the importance of this worldwide today. So the question then is, how do our interviews and assessments enhance DEI for an organization number one, and what definitive research can you cite that validates our claims?

Alice Pyclik:

Yeah, I think that is one of the most important questions that we'll be talking about today. In our research we found that our assessments are blind to things like race and gender, that a lot of times have been groups that have been adversely impacted in the selection process. When people focus on resume line items, How many years of experience do you have? Where did you go to school? What kind of degree do you have? Then you're going to be more likely to have adverse impact towards racial minorities and people who've been historically adversely impacted based on their gender.

With a Talent Plus assessment, we're not measuring any of those aspects of your resume that could be holding you back on the basis of a protected class like race or gender. We're measuring your natural thoughts, feelings, and behaviors that are characteristic of the potential to be a top performer.

And there's really no difference in race or in gender or in anything else as far as who expresses those talents and who doesn't. I know with one client after implementing our assessments, they actually saw a 26% increase in diversity of higher once they started focusing on talent more and on resume line items less. And then we've conducted multiple subgroup differences studies to see, are people of a certain gender or race recommended on the assessment more than others? And in no case have we ever found that to be true. So those are just a couple of examples of some data that we have on DEI and talent. 

Mark Epp:

Anything else to add?

Jonah Garbin:

Yeah, all individuals want in including leaders is they just want an equal shot at getting a job. And you mentioned that where you went to school and you know, the years of experience you have. It's fascinating how many individuals put that on a job posting. 

But one of my favorite activities that we do at Talent Plus is the description of a top performer. So we ask individuals, we ask clients, we say, I want you to think about the best we pick any job. So I'll use a waiter or waitress cause it's my classic one. When we think about the greatest waiter or waitress you have ever had, describe them. And they'll say things like, “This person remembered everything. They didn't even have a notebook, they just remembered everything. They were so personable. They were fun, they cared about me. It was a great time. I had a phenomenal experience. They create that.”

And they have never, I have yet to ever hear when they do it. “They have worked in this job for more than six years, they have a bachelor's degree.” Yet it's the first thing individuals post because we make an underlying assumption that the school you went to or the years of experiences, is a dramatic predictor of being a top performer. But we know from Schmidt and Hunter, it's one of the worst predictors we have today of being a top performer. And it also happens to be one of the most discriminatory.

Mark Epp:

Thank you both for such passionate information regarding DEI. I'd ask our listeners that if you're interested in improving Diversity Equity and Inclusion in your organizations, come talk to us about that. We can really make a huge difference. 

As we begin to close our podcast today, I want to have a call to action for our listeners. So what three action steps do you want our listeners to take that would help them dramatically improve the success of their companies one year from today?

Alice Pyclik:

Well, I think we've shared a lot of different strategies on how to invest in your employees. If we're talking to someone who's just starting out, I think I'd probably start with the profile that you were talking about wouldn’t you? Because they might not have a good gauge on where their leadership talent is currently or where their employee or their team talent is currently. 

But by focusing on those areas where people are strong, even if they're not, well rounded top talent at the current time in the organization, looking at those areas where they do have strengths and then pairing up people based on those strengths, I think would be a good way to invest in them.

Jonah Garbin:

Yeah. So I think the first thing I would do is I would get individuals assessed and as I said, leverage those profiles. That would be the first thing, utilizing the profiles and leveraging the talents of your employees to set themselves up for success. 

I think the second thing that I would do is I would take a quick minute to sit down, and I like to ask this question of all my clients, and I actually stole this from you, Mark, “What do you want to be world renowned for?” Asking that question is truly important because that allows you to set the standard for what your ultimate end goal is and then what are the intermediate goals that you plan to set before that that's going to ultimately lead to that end finale goal, which is what you are world renowned for.

Mark Epp:

If this has resonated with you today, give us a call, talk to Alice, talk to Jonah, talk to our team. We're here for you to be able to explore some of these avenues that we talked about today. Give us a call. We're going help you get to where you want to be. How do you want to be known for? And what world class experiences are you going to be able to create. We’ll help you get there.