Janice Hall Discusses Human Capital

Listen to our latest episode of Let’s Talk Talent, featuring Janice Hall, founder and principal consultant at Kinderhill Consulting LLC. 

In this episode, Janice and Let’s Talk Talent podcast host Mark Epp discuss: 

• Hall’s HR career with Estée Lauder
• How to develop a fast-to-action team 
• Why you must focus on your people
• The importance of asking employee questions

Learn more about how you can recruit and develop the best  employees with Talent Plus Talent Online Assessments. 

Transcript

Mark Epp:
Joining us today online is Janice Hall. Janice is the founder and principal consultant at Kinderhill Consulting LLC with a focus on driving strategies and results that create enhanced employee engagement and stakeholder value. Janice draws on 20 years of experience with the Estée Lauder companies as senior global HR leader and sales leader, focused on greater sales capacity and the program Fast to Action. Janice you have a passion for leading and developing sales executives to deliver exceptional results and you've won awards for transformational programs and policies that help create engaged productive executives and I'm so excited to spend time with you today. So Janice will you share if you will a little bit about yourself your background and current focus? 

 Janice Hall: 

Sure thanks Mark it's great to be here. You did such a beautiful job of introducing me I don't know what else to say but the first part of my career I was in the department store world and the fashion and accessory and beauty area and then as you mentioned I moved into the Estée Lauder companies where I spent 28 years and the great part about that experience was the first nine years of that time was in sales and regional marketing roles and then moved into the human capital/human resource area really where I had the opportunity to focus on talent and organizational development. What was so fun about the time that I spent in that area was I never had a job that ever existed before we just created new roles when we had new initiatives that needed to be focused on so I consider myself a startup leader and I love to take something that's an idea and bring it to fruition and then I'm very happy to hand it off for it to be nurtured and grown and I think that's a key part of leadership is knowing when to step in and nurture and when to step out and let your teams grow and prosper on their own. I spent a lot of time in talent and leadership development, employee engagement and then spent a lot of focus over the last ten years that I was with the company in strategy, business transformation, human capital, innovation and sales capability building. 

 You mentioned Fast to Action and that always is intriguing, people are very interested in what has to action is. And as the company was going through a lot of growth and business transformation, where we were looking at bringing together efficiencies and effectiveness where we could have centers of excellence, shared services so that we could free up our sales and marketing teams to focus on sales and marketing and the consumer experience and some of the back of the house where it could come together and that was very interesting but what we found was that takes a lot of time and it was taking a lot of our leaders, their eye away from the business. So we had the opportunity to create this fast action team and it has expanded over the years but when I initially letting got this team up and going we took very high potential talent and put them into this team and they were deployed into business initiatives within the business that where they were looking at the people part of the business transformation. What did the new jobs need to look like? What were the talent skills and abilities needed? And we helped lead the project management part of these big programs because what would happen is we got so involved in whether it was a new IT system or it was a new supply chain issue or how we're going to do agency marketing? And we were forgetting about the talent and the skill that was needed in this new world and how to rescale and move talent to fit the new needs of the organization. So, this group just really helped keep the eye on the ball and kept all of the eyes and t’s dotted to move forward. And we were able very quickly to save the company millions of dollars in outside consulting. And these workers were able to ramp up very quickly because they were empowered, they were talented, and they had clarity of the goals and objectives and didn't have to be ramped up about company culture. They knew the Estée Lauder companies they understood the culture. I know many of us as leaders have worked with outside consulting groups which are fabulous but we know there's always a ramp up time to help them understand and immerse themselves in the organization and this team didn't have to go through that ramp up period and were able to hit the ground running. 

 Mark Epp: 

Janice what I love about what you've just shared with us is that no matter what the process, no matter what the new job, no matter what the direction an organization is going in, you always focus on the people because it's the people that are going to put all of that into action. And one of the things that I've known about you and I've known you for many, many years is that you're so dedicated and passionate about developing and mentoring talent. Why is that? Why are you so dedicated and passionate about developing and mentoring talent, especially at that executive and sales leader level, Janice? 

 Janice Hall: 

I learned early on, I was so fortunate the first leader that I ever worked for when I graduated from college was young, vivacious and willing to share her knowledge. her experience, her enthusiasm and gave me this incredible first experience about working on a team with a leader in a professional role. And it just watching her give me the opportunity to show her what I was capable of it just excited me and I wanted to be able to do that for others. So as I began to build my career I quickly learned that I loved to build and develop great teams. When you have great teams you have great success and when you have fun and you empower people you see wonderful results. So it just became this passion of mine and you don't realize it till you live it and you develop it and you learn more about why you like it and that was one of the things that just fascinated me as I went through my very first Talent Plus interview and began to really study and I think it's an art and a science and to understand why that made me so happy and to this day nothing makes me happier than just see someone that I've had the opportunity to meet, to coach, to lead whether it's in an official role or an unofficial role. See them grow and prosper and be successful. You're only as good as the people who work for you and I want great people working with me and yelling my chains because then you are led to have great success.

 Mark Epp:

 Absolutely I really share that with you Janice as well as a Certified Professional Executive Coach, it's so exciting to see that growth in an individual really taking them from where they are today to where they want to go. Janice you've talked and mentioned a lot about great customer and guest experience. What is great customer and guest experience? 

 Janice Hall: 

To me that experience is when that customer hangs up the phone, they log off from their computer, they leave your store, they leave the meeting that you've had, they have a smile on their face they feel good, and they want to share the news with other people. You know when you think about the immediate way that people communicate now through social media and their phones to me if somebody's had a great experience and they're walking out of your establishment and they're typing in their phone and posting on social media what a great experience they had with my company that's a great experience. 

 But it's understanding what that guest or that customers needs are and helping them meet their needs and exceeding their expectations in that engagement that they're having with you. And I think it's so important that when bad experiences happen, I don't know sometimes it's interesting to ask a new employee what their definition of a great customer experience because a lot of times they don't know how to describe it or to make it happen because they may have not necessarily had that experience and the most important thing you can do is help your employees know what a great experience looks like in your organization. You can't expect them to deliver a great experience if they haven't experienced that themselves.

 Mark Epp:

Absolutely and you know we hear the term “experience” now everywhere. I remember many years ago when we first started working with the Ritz Carlton Hotel Company and Horst Schulze really keying on that phrase of creating a great customer experience and now we hear it everywhere. So you mentioned something really important just now which is understanding the needs of the guest in front of you. How do you really help an executive understand that or how do you really help an employee understand how to ascertain and understand the needs specifically of that guest in front of them to create that experience, Janice?

 Janice Hall:

I think it's really important to have great education and I think it's important that the education around asking questions and experiencing those types of questions that you ask to understand needs and wants and concerns is so important. And I think all of that linked into what the organization's overall mission, values and strategy is. You know we noticed such an improvement in our employee engagement, our customer satisfaction scores as we began to talk more about what the company's strategy was and how that relates to that person in any job that they're doing in the organization. So it's really important to make sure they have the experience and they have the questions asked of them, and they understand what the customer is saying. 

 I think a lot of times employees are so disengaged they can't give you enough time to even understand what your needs are because they don't ask you any questions or they don't listen to what you say. Listening is so important and I know we've all had experiences where people try to solve our needs before they really understand what they are. They don't ask us any questions they don't listen to what we need so it's really that education piece. And education can take on all shapes and forms. It can be formal, it can be informal, but I think it's that day-to-day coaching and providing that immediate feedback and positive reinforcement when you see what you've educated that employee, that leader how you've educated them and how you see it paying off and then using it. Because if they don't use skills they lose skills. And if you don't reinforce skills then bad things develop, bad habits develop. So coaching and understanding people's natural talents and how to coach them it's not a one size all approach. And it's so important to really understand talent, understand the goals and objectives, educate, coach and provide the right experiences. 

 You know I'm a big believer in shadowing and mentoring and helping people see great experiences happening before their eyes to help them be able to do their best. We have to set people up for success and you know we've all survived sink or swim and sometimes that's great, but when you think about customer experiences you don't people jumping in and it's sink or swim. 

 Mark Epp: 

Absolutely. So based on what you've just shared, what communication and alignment strategy should executives use to ensure that this happens?

 Janice Hall: 

That's a great question and it's a large endeavor, but it starts at the top and it's led by very strong communication teams and it's built into a cascade formation where the message is cascaded through the organization and anybody at any level knows what the message is but then the message is customized and this is where the leader comes in and it's so important. Because as we cascaded information through our organization and you go back and you start having conversations with team leaders and members you begin to see the gaps and you begin to separate strong leadership from mediocre leadership and the ones that really take the messaging, align it to how it looks for their department, or team, or group or geography. 

 You know geography is so important and how messaging happens in different locations and geographies, language translations. Oh my goodness just to even think about that and we all work in such a global world now translations are so important and making sure that message has meaning as it moves throughout the organization. So that everybody knows the goals that they're working and then the goals are incorporated into very actionable steps within that person's performance portfolio and what their goals and objectives are and then getting the feedback on how their actions are achieving their objections and whether they're achieving or not achieving and giving the appropriate recognition and coaching. So it's a lot and it takes a lot of education, and development, and time but once you get that cadence working in your organization it can drive incredible results. If service is important then they need to hear the CEO talk about service. You know it's just it has to happen and it needs to be talked about in every meeting, every coaching session, it has to be role modeled and you will definitely see results.

 Mark Epp:

 So Janice it sounds like what you've just shared that culture then really starts with the CEO and the executive team. So is that essential to maintain a consistent experience for both customers and guests across different locations, different departments, because as you said so many of us work globally today. So are you suggesting that this culture needs to start from the top and then trickle down across the organization?

 Janice Hall: 

Absolutely 100%.

 Mark Epp: 

And why is that so important? You talked about not just talking about it but showing it. Tell me more.

 Janice Hall: 

 You know you always hear it, I feel like it's an old phrase now that culture each strategy for lunch. But I think it's so important that a company understands what their culture is and if you're talking and sharing the message that you have a culture of a great customer experience but then your leaders are not treating their team members with respect, and dignity, and listening and all of the things that we tell our frontline associates that they need to be doing but they're not being treated that way, you can't expect them to treat their customers in that way. Because you don't want to walk out of your leaders office where they have you know not treated you in the right way and then you go out and have to face a customer. 

 So I think building a culture of communication, a culture of transparency and openness, and leaders role modeling, you know you want to see the most senior leader and having worked in the Estée Lauder companies for so many years you know Mr. Leonard Lauder himself, Estée Lauder herself would never ever be in any kind of environment where there was a customer without approaching, talking to the customer, showing the customer a product and I think that's so important. Your customer is the most important person that is in the room at that time. And seeing that behavior modeled at every level drives your culture and really delivers that experience because everyone wants to be involved in that. They see the importance of it. 

 Mark Epp: 

Janice you spent eleven years as vice president of global employee engagement and organizational effectiveness at the Estée Lauder companies. I wanted to ask you because in a lot of your writing you talk about cultural change. Why change? Why should organizations change? What changes need to be made and what outcomes can a company expect when focusing on culture? 
 
 Janice Hall: 

You know change is vital. It's odd to say change drives sustainability but it does. And if your organization doesn't change and grow with how the world and the industry is moving, then you're left behind. And when you don't have great employee experiences and great customer experiences the next thing you see if you put it into a retail environment, you see a for lease sign where your organization used to be. And we don't want any for lease signs or going out of business sales and if you don't change that can happen very easily. 

 But I think it's very important that you look at change just like you look at launching a new product, buying a new company, changes always there. And you have to have change leadership techniques and education and structures in place to lead people through change. The worst thing that can happen is you think you've communicated about this change and people will say, “well what change are you talking about?” And whatever type of change model you're using is not working. So change to me has to be looked at all times. If you're working on you know your next five year strategy and how you're going to communicate that to your customer, to your employees, and you're not thinking about the change management leadership. And the amount of change leadership that's needed is underestimated tremendously all the time.

 Mark Epp:

What really comes to light here from what you've just shared with us is the experience we've had in the last 3.5 years with COVID globally. We certainly understand today how we have to change with the change. And those organizations that came to us prior to really moving ahead during this whole COVID period of time that said, “I'm just going to wait until COVID is over before I make any changes.” Those companies like you said have their for lease signs where they were before. It was those companies that said, “We're going to do something, we're going to invest in our people” that really made such a difference, and that are really flourishing today as well. 

 Janice Hall: 

A great example of that is organizations that were not set up with online capabilities, online shopping. They had done exactly what you said, “Oh we're just going to wait on this online shopping because it's probably just a fad and you know we don't really have the type of business that can go online,” and those who had already dipped their toe and started building structures around online shopping or an online experience are the ones that were agile enough and were set up for success during COVID. So that's part of that whole change thinking and leadership is always surveying and seeing what's going on and not wearing blinders and just looking at your industry. But what is happening in other industries that could affect your industry.

 Mark Epp:

Absolutely I love that you use the analogy of “wearing blinders.” One of my dear friends Herbie Hancock the great jazz musician once told me, “Mark, you need to take the blinders off because you're only focused on this one thing and there's so many opportunities coming toward you you're missing because of those blinders.” To your point, Janice. So well said. Janice what strategies can leaders use to empower and motivate their teams to take ownership of customer and guest experience? Because it's each person that has to take that ownership to be able to really create that kind of experience you're talking about. 

 Janice Hall:

You know I think it's a lot like sending your children off to school the first time and you know letting them ride the school bus, or to walk home from school, or to do things independently. I think we stifle talent sometimes by not giving them the opportunity to fail and we like to say give you we're going to give you these opportunities you're going to make mistakes don't worry about it because you don't learn if you don't grow. And I think that's one of the most important things that a leader can do is empower their team to make decisions, to take action, to be a part of the goal setting and the strategic planning process. People are more aligned to what you want to happen when they've been a part of it from day one. 

 You know I was fascinated when I heard in the organization when we were going through some business transformations and people would say, “Oh it's great that they're bringing in this new way of doing things but they never ask us how we did it to begin with.” And you know ask the people who do the jobs. And when you're thinking about a great sales experience it’s giving the people the empowerment to do things to make, you know the customer is always right. And I never understood and it's kind of a two part thing to think about is my sales associates did not ever want to take returns. And I understand a lot of them are on commission and it comes out of their commission but usually if you handle a return in the appropriate way that customer ends up having a great experience and  buys even more than what they return. But when you don't give people the empowerment to make the customer happy it doesn't happen. And empowered that employee to own that project.

 You know we caught up a lot of times and especially I think the millennials and we look at all the different generations. I think the generations entering and those that have been in the workforce 10 years do a better job of not being caught up in hierarchy. Well you can't do that activity because you're not at that job level. We only take certain levels into these meetings. You're going to have a great meeting when you bring in new talent, people that have great ideas and people that are on the front lines and actually experiencing what you're trying to grow, develop or change. So it's really giving people that opportunity to show, and enjoy and flourish with their talents and their passion. You know unlock people's potential. I just, I think that's one of the things that leaders fail to do sometimes is unlock potential because they're afraid that mistakes are going to happen. Guess what mistakes happen every day and we fix them and we move on and we learn from them.

 Mark Epp: 

So true you've given us so many great things to think about here. I love the fact that you're thinking about bringing someone new in, that fresh eye often sees things that we who've looked at something for 10 years or 20 years don't see it all. But that fresh eye can make such a difference. Now couple of things come to mind here. First of all I think it takes an extraordinary leader to be both intellectually and emotionally ready to give employees that ownership that you're talking about. To let it go in a way. To also empower their employees to be able to drive that forward. So, if an executive is able to do that and do that effectively and really help employees be empowered and own that work in front of them. How then does the executive or the executive team identify areas that really need some improvement either culturally or creating that guest experience? How can they identify those areas, Janice?

 Janice Hall: 

I think a lot of it is when they see the results you know you don't give someone the key to the store on their second day and say you're in charge, but you give them stretch assignments. You know I'm a big believer in stretch assignment so that they have a safe environment to ride their bike — take their training wheels — off ride their bike. So their best. And then you give great feedback and coaching on, you did this really well. And I can see that you have a talent for this but let's talk about what gave you angst what kept you up at night when you were working or going through this experience. And you know what did you feel like you needed in your toolbox that you didn't have? Your toolbox of education and experience. So I think it's not opening the door too wide but opening it wide enough for them to spread their wings and then being right there with them to get feedback for them to share what's going on. You know it's always that open line of communication. 

 I love a blank piece of paper you know somebody will say, “Well you don't know anything about that.” I said, “No I don't know a thing about it but we're going to figure it out and we're going to figure it out together.” And you know using that to say, “Go back and think about it and bring me your ideas.” And then listening and letting them share their ideas and then letting them put some of the ideas into practice and see what happens. And it is amazing. The more they see their ideas come to fruition the more confidence they develop, the more open they are to learning new things and you begin to see them become so successful and be ready to move into new roles. 

 Mark Epp: 

Janice I love that you said that — go away and think about it and come back and bring me your ideas. One of the first questions I ever asked Kimberly Rath our co-chairman here, she had given me an assignment I went away to think about it  and I came back and said, “Kimberly I don't know how to do this.” And she said, “Well how do you think you should do it?” And I thought to myself well that's why I'm in your office. You’re supposed to tell me. But what happened and I understood is I was just giving her the problem rather than solving it myself. So she said exactly that. Go away and think about it and bring me back your ideas. So she was then able to really use her knowledge, and her experience and her expertise to help me along that path rather than just giving me the answers out loud which really helped me at that point to be able to own that information, to own that initiative and always come back with a solution so we can talk about it. Thanks for saying that so beautifully. 

 Janice Hall: 

And I think that's a big leadership breakthrough I think as a leader the sooner you can figure that out, the sooner you realize that you don't have to have all the answers, the easier your job is going to be and the more successful your team will be. A lot of times they have the answer and you don't realize they have the answer and you know I just you sometimes you especially in new jobs you think you have to know everything and when you give yourself permission to let others help you think it just is amazing. We really moved into a lot of group think and group development work as I progressed through my career and built these different teams and as we were working on all these different initiatives. You know there's not a one-size-fits-all approach to new initiatives and you know we really brought in a lot of design thinking principles into our work and team principals and really blurred the lines in our hierarchy of our teams and that's when we really began to be able to do more and have bigger and better success because we could get more done, because we weren't siloed.

 Mark Epp: 

And Janice with you leading the way. A part of what I've loved working with the Estée Lauder companies is exactly that. You brought ideas and then through idea meritocracy we were really able to make those ideas bigger and greater and really enforce those and enhance those ideas to make them exactly right for the needs of the organization. So that has been and is wonderful when we have clients that we can work with in that way. So I'd like to ask this question then, how can employers predict excellence in customer service when hiring potential employees? Because they don't know we can say to somebody, “Do you love service?” in an interview and they're going to say, “Well of course I love service.” But how can we really help employers predict that excellence that somebody is going to have the right talent to be able to really drive that culture. 

 Janice Hall: 

You know the easy thing is to say you do a lot of Talent Plus assessments and then you begin to study your top talent. But I'm a big believer in that. Especially when you're looking at a salesforce you know we spent hours upon hours partnered with Talent Plus really looking at the success of our top sales talent in the organization and our top sales leadership talent. And what does that talent look like and how does that translate to service? So you know you get so lucky to have access to data, and information, and assessments and tools I find it very difficult to think that I would have to hire someone without the ability to at least know what the talent is that is coming into the organization. 
 
 But I think it's also very important to understand that not everyone is going to approach sales in the same way. You don't have to have everybody having the same identical talents but how they use each of their talents to achieve success in sales and how the coaching is customized to talent. I think that is so important because I think so many leaders think you're going to get a book with a module and it's going to say you step one through five and then that's going to achieve sales success or any kind of success. 

 The best leaders are the ones that are able to be agile and to understand whether Janice achieves her sales goal through persuasion, Susie achieves herself through individualized approach, you know understanding because people can surprise you with their sales ability and sales excellence if you give them the chance. And you sometimes let them do it your way within the guardrails. And I think that's where you begin to see success is yes you have to have some structure in place about what service looks like but then you you're always going to have the person that never wants to fill out their sales reports or their client books. But if you ask them, tell me your top 25 clients, they can roll them off faster than someone that can pull out their book. So it's really finding that fine point of where it becomes a waltz and not a jitterbug in achieving the sales excellence and service excellence that you want. 

 Mark Epp: 

Janice if an executive was coming to Kinderhill Consulting and really wanted to engage with you to make further steps in terms of engagement, what are a few universal recommendations in other words first steps that exist that can help any executive or organization enhance engagement, sales or culture? 

 Janice Hall: 

I would have answered this question so differently four years ago when I was still in the world of Estée Lauder, almost five years ago now and today. Because as my consulting business has evolved and especially starting a consulting business as the pandemic started, I've moved into working with a lot of nonprofit groups. But nonprofits want to engage their patrons, consumers, guests whatever in very much the same way. So I think it's really important as you're looking as a new customer comes in, or a new client comes in and we're looking at it it's to really understand who you're engaging with. Is it a parishioner in a church? Is it a patron in the theater? Is it a customer in a retail environment? And what kind of experience that you want those individuals to have. And understanding not everyone is the same.

 I've done some fascinating work with our theater here in Memphis and really understanding the different types of people coming to see our shows. And we have given personas we've given persona names to them you know we have Poly Patron who buys her season subscription every year but then we have the young theater adults that are using theater as an entertainment opportunity and they're going to several of the other playhouses and theaters in town. So it's really honing in on who the customer is, what the experience is that you want to deliver, how you're delivering the experience, what your internal staff and sales associates are doing to deliver the experience, what people are saying about the experience that they have and really looking at all the avenues that you have to engage with your customer, your guest, your parishioner. 

 So you know we have to engage with our customers so differently now because of social media and all of the different ways that they have to engage with you. So it's the experience they have when they're in the brick and mortar, it's the experience they have when they go to your Instagram, it's the experience that they have with your website. And all of that goes hand in hand. So it is such a different way of approaching things than when you're in corporate America in a more structured way. So I think people have to be open and you have to really listen to what your client is saying and really understand the environment in which they're operating and help open their eyes into new and different ways of doing things. 

 Mark Epp: 

Janice I love the fact that you just share that you're working with numerous nonprofits and you are the recipient of the American Heart Association’s Leadership with Heart award. So let me ask, how do you incorporate leadership with heart into your work and how may others do the same? 

 Janice Hall: 

Oh that's a great question. I think it's really important how you spend your time, your talent and your treasures. And I have always said to anybody that's ever worked for me and they will tell you if you're not happy in your job I will help you update your resume to find a place where you will be happy. Life is too short to be unhappy with a company, or in a job, or in a relationship. And I think it's just really important that as a leader and as a business owner that you engage with people that you feel like have the same values and the same mission that you do. And you know when you have your own consulting company and you're retired you can pick and choose. 

 Mark Epp: 

Absolutely. You've shared so many great insights Janice today with us so as we begin to think about closing this podcast, what are three key takeaways you'd really like our listeners to have after listening to this podcast episode? What are those three key takeaways you'd really like people to walk away with? 

 Janice Hall: 

I think it's very important to understand the mission, the values and the strategy of your organization or the company that you're going to work with. Make sure you have the right talent to do the job. When you have the right talent it's really important to give them the right experiences, make sure they're being engaged, and empowered, and educated in the right way. And last is to make sure you're giving them the right amount of reward, recognition and communication. 

 Mark Epp: 

That is probably the universal truth that we can walk away with without doubt today Janice so true. And one of the things that comes to mind as you just shared that with us you'll remember Dr. Hall one of our founders saying, “What would the world be like if everyone did what they were good at doing and enjoyed?” And what would the world be like if we could just follow that kind of procedure of understanding our own mission, vision and values. Really being able to have the right talent to make sure that that mission vision and values is being driven forward and really giving people ownership so that they can win in their own lives and they can be happy in their jobs. So important that you just said, “I'll help you update your resume if you're not happy where you are today.” Let's merely make sure that that can happen and Janice Hall thank you so very much for your time today it is truly been a pleasure to reconnect with you. I've always learned so much from you in the past and learned so much more today. Janice Hall thank you so very much. 

 Janice Hall:

Thank you Mark it's been a pleasure and a privilege to spend this time with you. Thank you for the opportunity.