We are thrilled to launch our first episode of Let’s Talk Talent Season Two featuring special guest Kim Russel, Founder and CEO of Russel Advisors and Talent Plus Advisor’s Network Member.
In this episode, Russel and Let’s Talk Talent podcast host Mark Epp discuss:
To learn more about Talent+Ready, Talent Plus' scientifically predictive solution that identifies future leaders and executives and know when they're ready to lead, visit https://go.talentplus.com/talentplusready.
We are thrilled to launch our first episode of Let’s Talk Talent Season Two featuring special guest Kim Russel, Founder and CEO of Russel Advisors and Talent Plus Advisor’s Network Member.
In this episode, Russel and Let’s Talk Talent podcast host Mark Epp discuss:
To learn more about Talent+Ready, Talent Plus' scientifically predictive solution that identifies future leaders and executives and know when they're ready to lead, visit https://go.talentplus.com/talentplusready.
Mark Epp: It's my pleasure today to welcome Kim Russell founder and CEO of Russell Advisors. It was really exciting for me to read a little bit of history about you Kim and that you established a goal to become a healthcare CEO very early on in your thought process and then from there you have been an executive in the healthcare industry for over 38 years and CEO of healthcare organizations for more than 25 years. You were the CEO and president of Bryan Health were you oversaw an asset base of $1.2 billion in excess of that $750 million in operating budget and more than 5,000 employees.
You've also been president and CEO of Mary Greeley Medical Center, Chief Operating Officer at the University of Kansas and also I noted that you received your Masters at Washington University in Saint Louis — my father also went to that to that school so it's kind of fun to share that with you as well — as I mentioned my dad was a doctor my mom was a nurse so I grew up in a medical family. As we get started I really just want to thank you and all of those healthcare workers during these last COVID years. Healthcare professionals and all of the support teams within hospitals across the world put each one of us first. They often did that at the sacrifice of their own health, sacrifice of their time and their families, and I just want to point out how thankful and grateful we are for the industry that you've led to be able to get us through one of the most difficult crises in probably medical history.
Also I just wanted to mention Kim that Bill Lester chair of Bryan Health Board of Trustees said in 2019, “Perhaps Kim's most important legacy will be the highly talented leadership team that she developed over the years.” What a wonderful legacy that is to share with us today, very much so. Kim welcome to Let’s Talk Talent! Tell us a little bit more about yourself if you would please?
Kim Russel: Well thank you so much for those kind words and especially for the recognition of what the healthcare communities across the country, across the world did and I have to tell you specific to Bryan Health Organization that I had the honor of leading for almost 12 years, I could not be more proud of the work that the team did throughout like you said a worldwide crisis. And it was wonderful to see the recognition amongst the general population for that, but from someone who's spent obviously my entire career in healthcare I think what's important to remember is day after day, night after night our healthcare people across the country across the world, they are always they're always ready to help and to serve.
It's difficult work as was certainly shown in the pandemic and you know we absolutely are totally dependent on those incredible healthcare heroes — I'm incredibly grateful appreciative and proud of the healthcare team.
Mark Epp: As are we. So Kim tell us a little bit more about yourself and also the focus of your current business.
Kim Russel: Certainly. So as you noted in your very kind introduction I've been in healthcare my entire career, that's all I know so to speak some call me a one trick pony I don't know. But I look at it literally back in high school is when I stumbled upon the field of leading hospitals. And how fortunate am I that that's what I was able to devote my entire career to doing, and throughout my time as a healthcare executive as you trace through a number of different hospitals and healthcare systems, what I learned very early is that the secret to success if you will is really developing teams, developing leaders, developing people.
And I think that's the most important thing that any leader can focus on and can do. So I had always set a goal to retire — I'll tell you at age 60 — and that just happened to be around the time of January of 2020 so I actually retired from Bryan Health a few months before the pandemic hit not knowing what was going to be happening. But again part of my plan in retirement, I was always worried my biggest fear was being bored because I have a very short attention span. And over the years I'd really gathered a lot of interest I guess you could say in working directly with the boards and CEOs of hospitals and health systems because I had seen in my own experience what a difference it makes when you have a highly effective board. So that's where I decided to spend my time and my retirement is forming my own firm Russell Advisors, it's a boutique consulting firm it is just me — I’m not part of a bigger you know consulting firm — and my focus is entirely on working with boards and CEO's of hospitals and health systems.
It's very interesting work because obviously there couldn't be a more fascinating time in healthcare compared to you know right now and I feel as though frankly I'm able to pay it forward a bit by sharing some of my expertise, some of my lessons learned so to speak with others so that's the way I'm spending my time these days and not surprisingly the subject of succession planning is coming up, as it should, quite often in the boardroom these days. I would say dramatically different or dramatically more compared to the pre-pandemic time frame. Often I get asked questions about succession planning because that was a big focus of mine in the organizations that I led.
Mark Epp: Kim you said that this is the most fascinating time today to be in healthcare. What is it about today that makes it the most fascinating time to be in healthcare?
Kim Russel: Because there's such incredible pressures happening throughout the whole economy obviously on all business and industry sectors but particularly in terms of healthcare. Most hospitals and health systems have come out of the pandemic in very financially challenged scenarios, but yet, look at all the tremendous innovation that's happening in medicine. You know conversations like artificial intelligence and I don't know new drug development, health policy is always top of mind in our country so it's a time of perhaps great risk for the healthcare system as a whole but great potential as well.
Mark Epp: As I mentioned earlier you built a legacy of building great teams and the greatest CEO's and leaders that I've known across the world have always been able to do that. To know their own talents and what you bring to the table but also to surround themselves with great people. So can you define for us what succession planning is and why it's so important — especially in healthcare — for businesses across the country? Why is succession planning so important for businesses?
Kim Russel: Well I'm going to give you two definitions Mark, I'm going to give you the official definition that I use, like when I'm speaking with the board. And then I'm going to give you my own in real life definition. So the official definition I use is actually from the Society of Human Resources Management and succession planning is the future focused practice of identifying the knowledge, skills and abilities to perform certain functions and then developing a plan to prepare multiple individuals. So there's your official definition. Kim’s in real life definition is, it's the process of preparation not pre-selection.
So I really see succession planning as leadership development and I believe because you know this has been my experience, organizations that are focusing on that certainly at the C-Suite but throughout the organization as well, I believe those organizations will be stronger and better able to serve their mission.
Mark Epp: So, when you think about preparation not pre-selection as you mentioned, what do you do to develop those individuals that have an opportunity to become part of that succession plan for a business or for a hospital?
Kim Russel: Well when I would be recruiting individuals into leadership roles, I was always looking to see, and by the way I used Talent Plus’ assessment tool when I was recruiting at the C-Suite level at Bryan Health. But I was always interested in what type of stretch an individual might be interested in. Are they interested in stretching perhaps with experiences outside of maybe a narrowly defined job function? And, I was always attracted to recruit people like that. Because again in healthcare — and I think this is true for many other businesses too — there's so much change happening that you really want to often surround yourself with people who might be able to respond or adapt to change, might be able to do something different tomorrow than they've done for the past five years so to speak. And so the way that plays out day-to-day or in real life is I think it's a great opportunity for leaders to seek other opportunities, other challenges, whatever to challenge their people with or to assign or task their people with. To see how an individual responds with a completely different leadership set of responsibilities or leadership goals, that kind of thing.
Mark Epp: Well no question when you think about individuals who are comfortable with change, who will embrace change and flexibility that these last few years have been so essential for that and I think that that also really speaks to today being such an important time for succession planning and moving ahead in that way. So thinking about succession planning Kim, what are the key components of a successful succession plan?
Kim Russel: So, I like to think of it as having two chapters. So chapter one is the emergency succession plan. The what would you do tomorrow if this person got hit by the proverbial bus so to speak. And really for every key position in an organization, I believe there should be some you know a background plan for that. And by the way even though we're talking about leadership succession planning, I've seen a number of organizations have a hiccup if you will in not doing succession planning in other roles too. Sometimes an organization will have maybe they'll be a technical skill and they look around and there's only one or two people that have the skill or the knowledge of how to run a particular, I don't know piece of equipment or something like that. So succession planning is broader than only the leadership side of things. So, chapter one emergency succession plan.
And then chapter two so to speak is the broader longer term succession plan that most people think about when you use the phrase succession planning. And organizations have many different formats if you will for putting a succession plan together, I don't think there's a right or a wrong format. But typically the various components of that obviously you'll see the name of the position you'll see the incumbent but then the next step in my view is to really think, what are the most essential characteristics, background experiences for that position? And, it's perhaps easiest to think about what's needed in that position today, but when you're doing succession planning you're really trying to project into the future. You’re trying to think, okay in a few years down the road what are we going to need or what is this organization going to need in its CEO position, or its CFO position? So, really thinking through what the again backgrounds characteristics need to be for that position.
Then typically there's a listing of potential internal candidates, internal successor candidates and some sort of brief description again in the viewpoint of the leader who's putting this together typically with human resources input on is this individual ready now, ready in one to two years, ready in three to five years? And then just again a bullet point of or two of what is the key internal development plan for that individual? Maybe they're working on some credentials or academic track for preparation. Maybe they need I don't know some additional line management experience whatever it might be. So that is what a succession plan essentially looks like. Now it is not unusual in my experience for an organization to go through this process and to see some big gaps and to say, “Oh my we really don't have anyone internally that's on a development track.” That in itself is a great aha moment because that helps the organization then perhaps shore up some vulnerabilities know where to focus that sort of thing. Rarely by the way do I see an organizational succession plan in which there aren't a few gaps here and there. And so that can become a really good pathway for the C-Suite or the board or whoever to focus on going forward. But those would be the essential components of a succession plan for an organization.
Mark Epp: It makes so much sense Kim and especially when you talked about, well both of those chapters. But that emergency plan that you talked about and then a moment ago before that you talked about a process of preparation. It is so vital then that that preparation is in place. And that the leaders of an organization are making intentional choices to prepare and be ready for that rather than being broadsided by it under certain circumstances. Also you talked about understanding the essential characteristics for that position when you think about succession planning. What are those essential characteristics? How do you discover those things, Kim?
Kim Russel: That's a great question. So the essential characteristics may well differ by job. Maybe there's a technical skill, maybe there's some sort of academic requirement, I don't know if it's your chief financial officer certain industries that person has to have CPA for example. But beyond that sometimes it's a matter of you know this person must have a certain amount of line management experience or expertise. Or this person must have developed significant skills in I don't know working with external audiences or something like that. So it really gets down to the essence of what do we need in that position? And sometimes by the way that's going to change from time to time. Which is one of the most important parts for an organization’s succession plan is that it be revisited perhaps every year or so. Starting with again re envisioning or taking another look at what will this organization be needing down the road in its you know, in this position?
Mark Epp: And how does talent play a part in that thought process of characteristics and succession planning? How does talent play a part of that, Kim?
Kim Russel: Well obviously is vital and it's a maybe you could say it's an assumed part of the process. In my view, the experience going along with the talent especially when we're talking about I should say C-Suite positions, Mark are extremely important. Sometimes a talent assessment such as your company does, I believe they can help a leader maybe feel more comfortable taking a risk with someone because you see the talent is there. Maybe they haven't had the opportunity to demonstrate you know XYZ outcomes or whatever, but if you see the talent is there I think that just helps a leader be willing to take the additional steps, the risk whatever with that individual.
On the other hand, sometimes the talent assessment can also indicate you know this person has strengths in different areas that maybe would be better suited to the organization’s need and to that individual's need. So it can really help send you down perhaps some different more productive directions.
Mark Epp: Kim, what are common challenges that organizations face when implementing a succession plan?
Kim Russel: So the biggest challenge, I call succession planning “the great unmentionable.” Because it's one of those things no one wants to talk about. I think that's one of the biggest challenges and especially when I work with boards and CEO's on this Mark, the board will say well we really like our CEO he or she is doing a great job. We're concerned if we bring up the succession planning subject the CEO will think we want him or her to leave. The CEO says to me, “Hey I'm hoping to be in this job for a while. I'm concerned if I bring up the subject the board will think I have one foot out the door, or the board will perceive me as a lame duck so to speak.”
So I think just introducing the subject and the concept is one of the biggest hurdles which is why I like the concept of really talking about it as leadership development. Simply because I think that phrase doesn't have sometimes quite the emotional take that the word succession planning does. But just getting the conversation going is job one. I advise by the way brand new CEO's or should I say newly appointed CEO's and or their boards, work succession planning into your board agenda from the very beginning with a newly appointed CEO. So it becomes part of a routine conversation between the board and the CEO as opposed to again this unmentionable that no one wants to bring up for many years.
Mark Epp: I love that you've quoted that phrase, “the great unmentionable” because if it's a great unmentionable it probably is something you need to mention.
Kim Russel: Yes, exactly.
Mark Epp: And thinking about this as leadership development as opposed to trying to replace someone. So, how then can organizations, you began to touch on this how can organizations really overcome that kind of challenge?
Kim Russel: Well, you won't be surprised to hear me say this because of my focus on boards. Certainly, when the board makes succession planning or leadership development a focus, believe me that ripples throughout the organization. And I believe by the way very much is a governance responsibility to assure that there is a process for leadership development in an organization. And to ask questions. You know the board should be aware because it creates organizational risk when there is no succession planning or when there are significant gaps in succession planning. So certainly starting from the governance level is a big start. Often however it's the chief human resources officer that might introduce the topic and lead this for the whole organization. So that's another place to begin as well.
Mark Epp: Part of your legacy, as already been expressed, is being able to create those great teams. So can you share with us Kim, some success stories of organizations that have been able to do this really effectively? Snd then maybe what they did to be able to achieve those outcomes?
Kim Russel: So I want to give your listeners a book recommendation. This was published a few years ago. The name of the book is Hit Refresh and it is by Satya Nadella who is the current CEO of Microsoft. He's the third CEO in Microsoft's history — everybody knows about you know Bill Gates then there was Steve Ballmer and then Satya Nadella — and he published this book soon after he was appointed to the CEO position and the book is not per se about succession planning, but as you read it and you hear about his career at Microsoft and the various things that he did and you know the interaction and the decision of the board, I personally think it's a very good example very strong example of succession planning at Microsoft. So there's an outside of healthcare example for your listeners.
There are you know many organizations out there I believe that do succession planning well, but it's equally obvious when an organization does not do succession planning well. And I continue to see this in my field of healthcare. I will see an announcement that there's been perhaps an unexpected CEO departure, you know medical things for example. And then it will be several weeks, sometimes even longer until the board announces the CEO's successor or even what the transition plan will be. And to me when there's an announcement of a CEO departure and then no news for a while to me that is an example of an organization that was caught by surprise and did not have at least an up-to-date succession plan. And when that happens I believe that creates unneeded organizational risk, it's typically very disruptive internally as the internal workforce is like, “What's happening ? What's going to happen?” And frankly in a competitive environment it opens an organization up perhaps to strikes from competitors because the competitor will assess that there's some weakness there. So that's perhaps an all too frequent example at least in my field of what happens when there's an absence of succession planning at least at the C-Suite level.
Mark Epp: Completely makes sense and really goes back to how we began our conversations today. This is not just about hospitals and healthcare it really is across industries. Because when you lose CEO or president of organization and there's no feedback to the organization it is disruptive, the workforce is going to say as you just pointed out, “What's going on? What's happening here?” and can then become a competitive advantage for another organization because that plan has not been put into place. Kim you started to talk about this, what are some consequences of businesses that fail to really think about succession planning in advance? What are some of those challenges that they're going to come up with if they don't really think carefully about putting a succession plan in place?
Kim Russel: Well so all of those things that you just reiterated have consequences. And when the outside world sees an organization that's perhaps unstable at the top often their key executive talent is raided or attempts are made to recruit them you know to competitors or whatever. Even other folks within the organization start to feel perhaps insecure in their jobs, might be more open to job opportunities somewhere else. Even the markets for example, one of the tenants of good governance is do you have a succession plan in place? And the markets will react negatively from that as well. So there's a lot to it. There's the people side but it has these business ramifications as well.
Mark Epp: Absolutely. And what are some typical strategies that you see that leaders take to utilize or utilize to identify who's going to be that next leader? What are some typical strategies that you see?
Kim Russel: You know for an organization that's focused on internal leadership development I believe they're really looking for you know what are the results that this leader has been able to produce? What are their people skills like? Sometimes organizations will rely on you know internal surveys so to speak to be able to identify maybe where there’s leadership gaps, leadership challenges or leadership stars. I'll tell you going back to the pandemic example that you opened with, that if you will crisis in healthcare a lot of CEO's told me that they found leaders that they didn't know existed in that organization by the way some people responded and led in that situation by the same token, the pandemic also demonstrated some weaknesses in sometimes existing leaders. So sometimes just when stuff happens so to speak that can help identify leaders and leadership opportunities for internal people.
Mark Epp: Kim as we begin to sort of wrap up our time together today, if you could offer the audience say 3 takeaways that you want our listeners to really understand about your business and about succession planning and next steps to keep an organization fresh, moving forward, continuing to be competitive within their area of business, what are say 3 takeaways you really want our listeners to have as next steps to move forward?
Kim Russel: Here’s my three takeaways Mark. My first is to regard a succession planning as an extension of people development. It's just a way of investing in your own people. Next, I believe all leaders have a responsibility to do succession planning. It's that leader’s duty to the organization and also a duty to the overall mission or purpose of the organization. And then my final point is I think the timing could not be better to lean into succession planning. I think as a result of the pandemic and workforce challenges, organizations are just much more open to internal promotions and to spending time resources and energy on developing internal people. So the timing is perfect for organizations to be focusing on succession planning and internal leadership development.
Mark Epp: Well I love the fact that you've really expressed to us this idea of investing in the best. The people within your organization, identifying those individuals understanding their readiness to move forward, that all leaders if we're going to call ourselves leaders of an organization it's part of our duty to be able to make sure that that plan is in place and you pointed out how disruptive it can be without it. That the workforce may feel very uncomfortable and disjointed without that. And without the succession planning you're really giving your competitors great advantage of not moving that forward as well. So those are such incredible points. Kim thank you so very much for your time today, it has been an absolute privilege for me to be in front of you today and to be able to have this conversation with you. Anything else you would like to share with our listeners before we say goodbye for today?
Kim Russel: I'll just give one more tip for listeners that may be in an organization that for whatever reason is not really focusing on succession planning, what should that leader do? My recommendation is that that leader start with an initial discussion about career plans or career development with each one of the leaders that they are responsible for or that they are working with. And to even if there isn't an overall organizational wide emphasis on succession planning to at least start that career planning conversation and to think on their own what could I do to help that person develop? So even absent an organization wide I guess emphasis or focus, I still believe there's an opportunity for every leader to step up and work closely with their people on internal leadership development.
Mark Epp: Excellent. And a little further question about that. Is that conversation a collaborative conversation with each person, the leader that individual and the leader or is it really something that comes from the top down?
Kim Russel: I see it as collaborative. You want to start from a position of obviously knowing your people and I think that especially people respond to a leader who is interested in their career development. And their you know ongoing professional development and it just opens up a very important conversation.
Mark Epp: Kim, thank you so much. Kim Russell from Russel Advisors, such a pleasure to be with you today. I look forward to hearing this myself, so Kim thank you thank you so very much.
Kim Russel: Thank you very much for the invitation and to be part of this today I appreciate it.